The _____'s Journey

[thegalaxy6]

Hello Kristen,

First off, your site was a real eye-opener. As a fellow creator who isn't simply tickled by the muse-fairy and blessed with some wonderful gift of art under my pillow in the morning, it's awe-inspiring to see someone research and piece together their influences to the degree that you have, and I very much look forward to seeing what you've come away with when you've finished your first novel. You're like Gollum to my Frodo, in the sense that I have to have faith that in your work ethic, you can come away with something truly wonderful, because I'm a musician/aspiring writer who's more prone to synthesis and architecting ideas than sudden flights of nicely packaged inspiration.

The brief description you've given sounds interesting. One of my favorite comics is Alan Moore's The Ballad of Halo Jones, simply because it managed to have touching, realistically feminine moments, with a good dose of action and militaristic grit. It's one of my favorite "little" Science Fiction stories, and it's lead is a chick... go figure!

I recently started reading Victoria Schmidt's 45 Master Characters, which got it's start while the writer was attempting to retrace the "Feminine Hero's Journey" from modern stories, back to ancient mythology. I thought it was odd that she would use a myth that Joseph Campbell used in Hero with a Thousand Faces (ch-ching, finally connects it with STAR WARS and this website), to describe a strictly female character's journey, as if it would be different (unlike just writing for a male, and replacing him with, oh say, Sigourney Weaver). But that, of course, is the point, and this bone-headed male can dig it.

My question for you is, in all that wonderful research, have you by any chance considered works such as A Feminine Alternative to the Hero Myth by Jean Benedict Raffa (don't own it, haven't read it, yet), She by Robert R. Johnson (have it, haven't read it fully, yet), and the somewhat newer 45 Master Characters, in connection with your work -- or are you more inclined to write a less gender-specific or Male-like character, who just happens to be a woman?

~Dak

[Kristen Brennan]

thegalaxy6, strangeballoon, privateprivatecomcastnet:

Thanks for the info!! I'm a huge fan of Alan Moore; used to obsessively collect everything he'd ever written, though I lost interest in comics entirely once the Image boom started. I'll probably buy Moore's stuff in trade paperback someday and catch up.

I'll check out Valerian, and those books on women's myth. Mostly I think women's myth and man's myth is almost the same. Inanna and Orpheus and Christ's Harrowing of Hell are all the same story.

I've seen Wizard of Mars a few times and it doesn't click for me... or, wait, there is that giant hologram of his head at the end... (off to watch it again).

Lucas definitely got some inspiration from Kirby, but the whole idea that he "ripped off" Kirby is silly. All artists borrow ideas either from other art, or their own life. Even if you live the most incredible life of all time, will you have found a better answer to all the great archetypal dilemmas than the Bible? Or Shakespeare, or Greek myth? It's much more likely you solved the dilemmas in your life *using* solutions found in the great stories (though you personally may have encountered those story ideas in watered-down versions as sitcoms, comicbooks, videogames or something you heard at the office). If George Lucas really owed Frank Herbert a million dollars for intellectual property rights, by the same reasoning Herbert would owe the T.E. Lawrence estate a *billion* dollars.

>> First off, your site was a real eye-opener. As a fellow creator who isn't simply tickled by the muse-fairy and blessed with some wonderful gift of art under my pillow in the morning, it's awe-inspiring to see someone research and piece together their influences to the degree that you have, and I very much look forward to seeing what you've come away with when you've finished your first novel. You're like Gollum to my Frodo, in the sense that I have to have faith that in your work ethic, you can come away with something truly wonderful, because I'm a musician/aspiring writer who's more prone to synthesis and architecting ideas than sudden flights of nicely packaged inspiration.

Um... I'm *glad* to be your Gollum. I guess. ("Can I hold the guitar tuner for a minute? The *precious* guitar tuner...")

Seriously, being a story-maker seems like a wonderful way to spend one's life, if you can make it work. In addition to the whole childish wonder of creation, you get to be of actual vaule to society. If you've got the connections and the charm, you can get a job writing film and television that reaches millions of people, but unless you have something new and valuable to say, who cares? As far as I can tell, the people who made a difference in storytelling all worked very, very hard for years, training themselves in the profession of story-making just as someone might train to be a doctor or lawyer. Tolkien's probably the most powerful story-maker to come along in centuries, and his process was a lot like this website: when he found a story he loved, he would root out the sources and compare them to the original, hoping to catch a glimpse of the magic between.

Anyway, I'm glad someone is getting value from the website!!

cheers, Kristen B.

[thegalaxy6]

<< Thanks for the info!! I'm a huge fan of Alan Moore; used to obsessively collect everything he'd ever written, though I lost interest in comics entirely once the Image boom started. I'll probably buy Moore's stuff in trade paperback someday and catch up. >>

The Complete Ballad of Halo Jones is an oldie, but a goodie. Very Pre-Image -- and since then he's done From Hell, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (ignore both films, especially League, which you find of particular interest, as it's exhaustingly researched) and Promethea (speaking of Archetypal, female Heroes... I think the gist of that book is that she's LITERALLY an "Archetype" of sorts).

<< I'll check out Valerian, and those books on women's myth. Mostly I think women's myth and man's myth is almost the same. Inanna and Orpheus and Christ's Harrowing of Hell are all the same story. >>

See, that's pretty much my opinion. Not so, according to Schmidt's book (45 Master Characters, the title of which is somewhat misleading), as she describes the differing journeys as beginning and ending at separate points, stressing importance on different areas. She claims the "feminine" Hero (which, at times, has been portrayed by men) has earlier revelations, awakens as early as Act I, and works towards death and rebirth (as based on Inanna), whereas the Masculine Journey resists inner change until Act III, and chooses whether to rebel against change, or embrace it (which she claims, due to it's age, is based on the Epic of Gilgamesh).

I'm a little apprehensive of all those "based on" references, because having read a decent amount of Jungian analysis, I think it's rather foolish to think it's based on Myth, rather than Myth being based on us... so to speak.

But there's obvious differences between the makeup of men and women, differing wants and needs (as per their society's Shadows, etc.), and I find it at least an interesting read so far.

<< Lucas definitely got some inspiration from Kirby, but the whole idea that he "ripped off" Kirby is silly. All artists borrow ideas either from other art, or their own life. Even if you live the most incredible life of all time, will you have found a better answer to all the great archetypal dilemmas than the Bible? Or Shakespeare, or Greek myth? >>

Oh yeah (in fact, that's why I mentioned the quick aside of history repeating itself, with writer Grant Morrison feeling that his book, The Invisibles was stolen for THE MATRIX -- whereas, I've, reluctantly as I am not a fan, come to find influence from MANY sources). Well, Kirby helped create most of Marvel Comics' flagship characters, and wasn't exactly properly compensated, but tales of frustrated and desperate artists aside, I was just making the point of influence.

<< Um... I'm *glad* to be your Gollum. I guess. ("Can I hold the guitar tuner for a minute? The *precious* guitar tuner...") >>

Hehheh, now understand I meant nothing demeaning, just that I too obsess over past influences, sources and tend to create via synthesis, as opposed to receiving lump sums of ideas through muse only. Your STAR WARS research in this regard, as a means for helping as a partial guide for, I assume, your own decisions and choices to delve deeper into your work's influences, is mind-blowing. Thus, if I thought I look to the past for too much inspiration, I need only look at this forthcoming book of yours as hope that such research pays off, .

<< Tolkien's probably the most powerful story-maker to come along in centuries, and his process was a lot like this website: when he found a story he loved, he would root out the sources and compare them to the original, hoping to catch a glimpse of the magic between. >>

Exactly, and for whatever reason, that excites me, lol.

Igor Stravinsky was one of my musical inspirations to do likewise with my music, as he referenced folk music from his era (but, unfortunately, denied it, as folk music would be viewed as too demeaning a source for something as high-brow as classical), and I had read that Lucas did the same with Raymond's Flash Gordon, leading him to Burrough's Mars books, Jonathan Swift's Gulliver's Travels, etc. (I believe I read that in an old "Bantha Tracks" newsletter).

Anyways, keep up the good work, and hope to see your books soon!

~Dak

[Daniel Cochin]

Kristen said:

Anyway, I'm glad someone is getting value from the website!!

cheers, Kristen B.

hum...

well, tell me if this is value!

sent you a small letter in late September, and I must admit I've been procrastinating ever since, as I told you I'd write more later.

I've thought not only of your insights and - mark my words - achievements in unravelling the code, but also of yourself, who the hell is this person who made it so far into the very nature of things?

I guess I was hoping for an inspired moment to express at once all you've done for me. And I guess I just postpone stuff over and over, too.


finding in your writings a confirmation of my own solitary insights and reflections was like finding a cornerstone after years of striving to build a structure. You gave me this, and much more. I could do without the scaffholders. Forrest can run, without need of prosthethics anymore.

to receive such brilliant confirmation of my deepest insights was something undescribable. Something I would never have hoped for - short of stumbling upon your site, by sheer chance.

But not only did you give me comfort through reliability, a firmness to stand on at long last.

You gave me something far beyond that.

Confidence in myself, in my value, as an enquiring mind. Pride, when there was but doubt. Sharpness of thought, when there was intuition sometimes unable to express itself.

It even changed the way I move!!! Heroic fantasy indeed... the journey is part of reality.

You gave me a Key.

I'm still at the treshold, but I have seen a vastness beyond what I thought the boundaries of what my value... lied.

you have my unfinished sympathy, Kristen Brennan... and eternal gratitude.

may the Force, or whatever it is that is out there, be with you - always.




from across the seas,

Daniel Cochin

[Kristen Brennan]

Daniel Cochin:

Wow, thanks!! Whatever value the website has, I credit to:

1. I randomly wandered into Silicon Valley during the boom years, so I was able to make enough money to take a few years completely off (provided I was willing to live like a graduate student and put off starting a family) and focus exclusively on my "shamanic apprenticeship." It began with reverse-engineering Star Wars, and progressed through Lord of the Rings, Narnia, Star Trek... I've taken apart every major 'wonder story' since about 1858 (beginning with 'Phantastes' by George MacDonald, the first English-language modern fantasy), plus most major scriptures and epic myth (though I only published the SW stuff online), to train myself as an aspiring storyteller. Money fell from the trees in those days, so this opportunity was pure luck. (The money ran out and I'm back on the job market.) After university Joseph Campbell spent a few years alone in the woods, doing the same "shamanic apprenticeship" thang. Jung had a little white tower by the side of a river, to which he'd retreat. This is how it works. Be warned: it's lonely.

2. Joseph Campbell and C.S. Jung basically explain how to give oneself a shamanic apprenticeship - study your big influences in detail, figure out how they did what they did and what they were attempting. And I know this is nonintuitive, but it's extremely important to have a pet, like a cat or something - the more you float away into the etherial world of story, the more important it is to have an animal familar around to "ground" you in phsycial reality. Bruno Bettelheim is invaluable on fairytales, Robert McKee is the best on the fundamental mechanics of story, Frazer explains magical thinking (the two kinds of thinking are basically 'logic' and 'magical thinking', so learn both). Nearly all books on shamanism are dubious new age wishful thinking claptrap from a practical perspective (though many are emotionally nourishing and open up the reader's capacity for wonder, two extremely valuable functions - just know that they rarely overlap with the acquisition of the practical nuts-and-bolts information you need to rigourously train as a real-life modern shaman). The closest thing to an actual definitive anthropological overview of shamanism is probably "Shamanism" by Mircea Eliade. As I understand the craft of mythopoeia (creating myth), Tolkien is the single most powerful mythopoet of the past 100 years+, and the modern world provides a lot more info than, for instance, we have on the private life of Homer (his name is slang for "blind guy"; that's about all we know). So Tolkien is probably your single best cost/benefit ratio for shamanic modeling (learning the pattern-evolution of a storyteller you admire as a guide to developing your own pattern) - read the suggested reads on the LOTR page, they're all fantastic. Also definitely study your personal strongest influences: what is it you love about them? How did they develop those ideas, and who where their influences? What's the oldest story you can find in the chain-of-influences leading up to your favorites?

3. I had that one fantastic music composition teacher (G.G.), who taught me a "trick" for learning an artist's creative process: compare their work against the work of their primary influences, tracing connections, until one develops an intuitive grasp of the creative leap between. This is probably the single most useful thing I've ever learned, and the 'algorithm' behind the whole website.

Remember that the divinity, power and beauty you perceive in other people is partially a projection of the as-yet untapped divinity, power and beauty that exists within you, and a clue to how you can learn to access those things directly.

Warm regards,
Kristen B.

[Daniel]

wow, that was quite something... my warmest thanks for your footnote especially. Indeed if one is capable of reacting to certain qualities, it means one posesses them at least at a dormant level...

I don't know that I'm seeking to be a shaman, though I guess one could say that...

I try to behold the world as a living creature, that, I know. Trying to combine the in-sight of the old sage and the fresh eye of the newborn...

interesting. I'm saving your advice and hope my hard drive does not die on me like its predecessors did.

As for now I'm not really your typical bookworm... must have read two dozen books in my life, tops, maybe three! (Ok, maybe four or five.) The list of stuff waiting to be read is big... and so is the list of stuff to be written. I read at writing pace (on purpose). And from what I gather from your approach, to try and write something without "training", including your famous "reverse-engineering" concept, is bound to fail or at least suck?

To this day I have developed a talent for expressing and describing feelings, emotions, shapes... reflecting on stuff... but as for storytelling? That's been beyond my reach 'til now. No plots. I hate my dialogues too. But I have been thinking about it mainly, instead of trying...

otherwise I am applying in the field of music what I have read a few months ago here in your site, that much of what you produce you must be willing to treat as crap. boo

Makes sense though.

anyway!

Herr Jung has been for a long time on the waiting list, he'll be the first one I'll meet with I guess. To think that it is the same soul who came up with both the concept of archetypes AND the concept of synchronicity!!! astonishing.

Probably Campbell afterwards, if I ever do seriously get into reading... Mircea Eliade, fun thing, I bought one of her (his?) books for my brother 3 years ago. Could borrow that sometime!

as for you... well I see in a message above the term "work ethic" seems to be a coined expression in English... in that case you turned such ethic into a lifestyle!!! amazing, truly amazing. Guess you could be called a shaman after all! this is so impressive that anybody could become so focused, on its own, and for the sake of something invisible... that is, until stuff like this site or your books happen. Many years in between, for sure... with no rewards, no satisfactions but insights that may or may not be worthy... and surely with every day's and every night's share of doubt.

so! ...is there any major story out there where the hero's journey is about doing away with procrastination, even without a Darth Vader or wraith to force him or her out of idleness?

(or statelessness as someone I love would say)




cheers Kristen, and again, thank you!


Daniel